So, we talked about the importance of church in the raising of children, and I told you the lengths our family would go to be a part of a family integrated setting. Now, I would like to address what to do if you decide to stay in a church that is not family integrated or even family friendly.
Let me start by saying our family is of the “puritan” persuasion rather than the “separatist” sort. We try to diligently work from within the church to promote Biblical standards long before we ever consider leaving. This is as per my husband’s leading because sadly, I am a knee-jerker by nature. I’m learning.
So, when you have decided to stay and “make the best of it” in a non-family integrated church, what do you do? As a puritan, I have to stand up and say whatever you do, do not just go with the flow and let their ways become your ways. Work from within to bring about whatever change you can, and if change does not come, persevere in the way Scripture leads.
Now for the examples. I’ll break them down into categories:
Sunday School
You don’t want your children to go to an age-segregated Sunday School class. What can you do?
1. Not go to church during Sunday School time.
2. Take the children to YOUR Sunday School class.
3. Start your own family-integrated Sunday School class for those who want to join in.
I have personally done all three of these. Taking the children to our Sunday School class was not well received because we have small children and they create a level of noise that many of the older people in our class could not handle. As for starting my own Sunday School class, I need to clarify something. I started a Moms N Tots class. Our husbands all went to other Sunday School classes or not at all. It was well received by the congregation; however, I’m not sure how acceptable they would have found it had our husbands also come to the class.
Corporate Church
You don’t want your children to go to Children’s Church or the nursery (unless you are with them). What do you do?
1. Avoid the Children’s Church/Nursery worker and sneak your children into the service.
2. Go to the Children’s Church and Nursery workers and explain how you really want your children with you during the worship service. Be positive and PRO-family, not negative and ANTI-church worker.
3. Go to the pastor and explain how you really want your children with you during the worship service, but you want to be respectful of his ability to concentrate as he preaches and the congregation’s ability to concentrate on his preaching. Then lay out your plan of action such as training the children at home to sit quietly, taking them out as soon as they become disruptive, sitting on the back row, bringing activities for them to do during church, etc.
In my opinion, #2 and #3 are the way to go. Do not make family integration an exercise in nose-thumbing of the church leadership.
Youth Group & other segregated activities
I’m going to say something here that may not win me a lot of points with many people, but I have to say it. I think youth group is dangerous. Unless your youth group is the opposite of most in that it is more committed to Scripture than to pizza parties and social games, you are asking for troubles you neither want nor need. And when I say committed to Scripture, I mean serious, deep, Berean-like study of Scripture, devoid of the typical foolery of today’s youth groups. The Bible tells us children are foolish. At this age they have not yet developed the individuality of thought needed to avoid the mob rule that is so prevalent in teenage social gatherings. Sending your children to youth group is not something to be taken lightly.
So, what do you do instead?
1. Stay home.
2. Start up a Family Night. Host it in your own home or on the church grounds. There is nothing wrong with having fun, but when the fun is within the context of family, there is a much better chance of the fun being of the edifying sort.
3. Start an in-depth Bible Study for your children…or find someone who will.
My #3 might surprise you since I said no to youth group, but remember, I did say UNLESS your youth group is of the Berean kind. Segregated activities are not always bad. I attend a Bible/book study for homeschooling mothers (not associated with our church) and my husband and son attend a Boy’s Book Club (also not associated with our church). When we home churched it was not uncommon for the women to be off sewing or canning while the men sat and studied their Bibles and the children played in the yard. I will say whenever possible, family members should go in pairs to any segregated activities for accountability’s sake.
Hopefully, by now you have seen a trend to what I am saying here…
When your church is not what you would like for it to be, consider what YOU can do to bring about change. How often do we sit around and gripe about things, but do nothing to change them because that is “someone else’s” job.
And again, be positive. Approach the changes you hope to see as PRO-family, PRO-unity within the congregation, and PRO-Scripture. Going in with guns blazing, ready to take down the church, is not going to open ears and hearts.
Now for some discussion…
I’d love to hear your thoughts, your experiences, etc. I also want to introduce you to a resource that really helped us years ago when we were discouraged:
The Uniting Church and Family Conference CD’s said some hard things I needed to hear. I expected the speakers to say that at the first sign of problems in a church, you should leave. They didn’t. The teaching on these CDs is solid and Biblical. There is even a CD on HOW to leave the church if it becomes absolutely necessary. What they say is spot on and so positive and encouraging! I highly recommend this set! (I’ve had mine so long, they are cassettes!)
So, talk to me…looking forward to your thoughts!
Jules Green says
Hey there:) Thanks yet again for another thought provoking post! God has been introducing us to this idea just this past year, and I am appreciative for your many interesting points on the topic! I look forward to pursuing this ideal for our family, and I thank you for your encouraging words:)
Clara says
It really is so good to hear from someone else who has (had) these same issues! We are the only ones to keep our children with us through the service rather than segregating and we have had a lot of comments about it, and even a discussion in which I tried to make gentle suggestions, but to no avail. We also prefer family events (outside of Sunday services) rather than youth groups or any other such thing because of the way those kinds of things have become such a social event.
I agree with the things you have written, Amy – and thanks for writing about it; it really is encouraging to know others think the same way. 🙂
Gina says
Wow! So I didn’t know that this was even an issue or what family integrated church was but this is exactly what we have been doing since our daughter was born 3 and a half years ago! I thought we were just strange (as does everyone else in our church! lol) Anyhow thanks for the information, ideas and encouragement!
Also, a question: what reasons do you give for not sending your children to segregated Sunday School? And with the Moms and Tots sunday school you started, were you suggesting that it would be preferable for both parents to be there? Ideally, should it be a family Sunday school class? …I could go on with questions forever but I’ll leave it at that! 🙂
Amy says
Originally, I started the Mom N Tots class because my 2nd born wouldn’t go to Sunday School (she was scared) and the teacher basically told me I needed to MAKE her go. I thought that seemed a bit silly, so I started a class where she was welcome to be there too. Later, my husband and I felt very convicted that none of our children should go to Sunday School because they kept coming home with extra-biblical teaching we had to explain out of their little minds (we were actually reprimanded by one of the teachers when she found out we did not do the Easter bunny!–there were other, more serious things as well).
I do think, ideally, a Sunday School class for the entire family unit would be great, but like I said at the end of the post…sometimes somewhat segregated activities are ok if highly monitored. In all actuality, Sunday School was started for the street orphans who did not have families to mentor them. It was not the place for children who’s parents were there to explain the truths of the Bible to them.
I hope that makes sense and helps clarify. 🙂
Nicole from lake view, ny says
Amy, what is a family integrated church? Sorry…I’ve never heard of that term. Thanks!
Amy says
I would consider any church that promotes families worshiping together (ie no segregated by age Sunday School classes, Children’s Church, Youth Group, etc) to be a family-integrated church. You can find listings for some of these churches here:
http://www.ncfic.org/
We don’t see a precedent in the Bible for families being divided up to worship the Lord. In fact, the idea of separating everyone by age is a fairly new concept and one that, I think, has hurt the family rather than help it.
Jennifer says
I “get” the idea of family-integrated church and it seems like a great idea. However, as long as parents are doing their job at home to teach and train, will extra training in a once a week Sunday School class really hurt them? I don’t expect the church to train my kids–even in the “upstairs” service. Our church has no attended nursery and classes for kids only on Sunday mornings. That means that all the time until age 3 and 2/3 of the time thereafter, our children are with us in the service. I’m o.k. with that, I think, though I would like to hear your thoughts on it. Also, my kids are young, but we have no youth group–just a youth Sunday school class.
Amy says
This is definitely a decision your own family has to make and if you are comfortable with sending them, then send them. We had a couple of experiences (see my reply to Gina) that made us decide Sunday School was not a safe place. Even more recently, my mom was sitting in a Sunday School class for adults where the teacher said there was no hell or Satan. It made me realize when someone teaches Sunday School you really have no way of knowing what they are teaching unless you are in the class with them. We would rather not put ourselves in that position.
Lauree says
Hi Amy, I love this post but I’m curious about something. 🙂 This is not to be an antaganistic question, I’m really curious and I know a lot of people can get defensive about these topics. Anyway, when the children (let’s say 3 & 1ish)come to Church with the family and they get disruptive, play with other things, etc-how do you as the parent get any thing out of the sermon? Or how do the kids get anything out of it? Or is it more about the family being together? I would really like to know your opinion. I hope I did not come across defensive!!
Amy says
I appreciate the question, Lauree, and I wrote a bit about it in this post:
https://raisingarrows.net/2010/05/worshipping-as-a-family.html
There has to be some sort of training at home and there has to be understanding when you come to church that you may spend a lot of time at the back jostling a fussy baby.
Ideally, there are others in the church with older children who are willing to help out. This is another aspect of family integration that I hope to touch on in another post…it isn’t just the biological family. There is the aspect of a strong church family there as well.
Ultimately, as I said in the above mentioned link, church is about what we put into it, rather than what we get out of it. It IS hard when they are all little and you are frustrated. I still find myself frustrated from time to time. But persevere!
Lauree says
Thanks Amy! I’ve often thought of doing this but we have children’s church and all of that stuff you have mentioned. I really love what you said about Church is what you put into it not what you get out of it. I find that I am wanting to do more as just a family rather than being separated. I love being with my family and was curious about your post which I loved! Thanks again for the input.
Amanda says
I really appreciate your thoughts, Amy. We attend a family integrated church and we keep all 4 of our children ( ages 6, 5, 3, and 1) with us through the service and our services are 3 hours long! What a blessing to be able to worship together as a family! You would be surprised how much the children retain. It takes training and patience to get your children to learn to sit and be still but even at 1 year old my daughter sits through the entire service without interruption ( most days :)) If parents want to send their children to children’s church, that is their decision and I certainly won’t judge them for it but I would suggest that they consider the blessing they could be missing out on by keeping the family together. Be blessed, ladies!
Lisa says
We have gone the path of keeping our babies with us in church, in a back of the room “cry-room” which is sound proofed as long as we can and are still able to enjoy the sermon. our two girls, 5 and 3 go to children’s church (sunday school). i was/am always wary of who i am letting influence my children, but have felt convicted that children’s church is the right place for my girls. i’ve purposed to know their teachers, helpers etc and make sure they know me and my child! taking that little extra step has made all the difference for us! i love that there are other adults that know my kids, and know what our family stands for, and are able to love on my kids weekly. i feel that this is important that my children are around other adults who love Jesus and the things we teach at home are being supported and taught by other adults as well! we have been so blessed to see the relationship grow between certain adults who loved on our oldest when she was just a baby and have made the effort to stay in relationship with her even after she’s moved up in the sunday school classes. and she loves it too!
anna says
very similar to my own thoughts.
I think it is important and valuable for them to do things on a spiritual level and build strong bonds with their peers and other Christian adults. These were happy memories for me as a child and teen. I also am refreshed weekly by my ladies bible class. I must not rely on the church to raise my children but I also must not assume that *I* am the only one who should do it all.
My children are all trained to sit through worship service. I know very well that their brains are counting light fixtures and wood panels the whole time. (as did I at their age) Just because I have a pew of clean faces and still knees does not mean that is the best way for my family to worship. We must make sure that we are not idolizing this form of worship as if it may be better— it does make me look like an ideal mother to stand there with my stair steps all folding hands and singing at the right time!
It is all about balance and doing what is best for your family and the souls that have been entrusted to you. Our family unit is most important but it doesn’t mean we have to do *every single thing* together as a family for it to matter.
That isn’t the vibe I am getting from these posts though. 🙂 I felt no need to defend my church or way of worship. But did want to chime in the comments so that it was more balanced.
A biblically sound church should be the first thing you consider above all. Everything else will fall into place.
Melodie says
Great advice as always! Honestly, we had a knee jerk reaction when our last church discouraged us from bringing our children into worship. We had been going there a year when we discovered the model of family integrated church. (and we started having problems with the nursery workers talking more than working).
God blessed us with a family integrated Reformed Baptist church, the only one in our area.
From there its been hard work to train a 3 year old who was used to running around like a heathen in church nursery, but we can see the fruits of our labor now. : )
Love this post, good level-headed advice!
The Pauper @ apauper.com says
Amy,
Great post. We are stuck having no options other than the neo-traditional age segregated church to attend in our area so your post rings true with me and I heartily agree (except for your generous allowance for a Berean-like youth group, I still see the damage done by separating the family no matter the age but that is a minor difference of position). In the mean time Mrs. Pauper and I continue to pray for other like-minded families to come along with whom we can plant a Family Integrated church. Until then we will keep swimming upstream.
The Pauper
Kate @ Modern Alternative Mama says
Amy, this is interesting and not a perspective I’ve really ever heard before. In my area, people talk about “family friendliness” as having all of those children’s programs available. It’s a “great church” that provides nurseries, age-appropriate Bible studies, youth groups, and a nursing room for moms (though I think you’d agree on that last one).
In our church all those things are available. But we are not discouraged from bringing our children into service, if we prefer. Many families will keep their children with them during introductions and worship, then take them back to the nurseries for the sermon time. When I first left my daughter in the nursery (4 months), they took the time to talk to me and answer all my questions. I didn’t leave my son until 8 months, and actually, it’s the ONLY time he cries when I leave him. My daughter, though, at age almost 3, LOVES her Bible study class. And I’ve never seen anything bad come out of it. I think it’s appropriate for her at this time.
However, the youth groups…I KNOW for a fact that the teens behave inappropriately, even IN the church! I’ve been told by my friends who do AWANA that when the lights are out, they’ve seen the teen volunteers doing pretty inappropriate things. I think the youth leaders mean well but something’s just not right there. You’ve heard all the stories, I’m sure, about the “wild” youth groups….
I’m curious, do people accuse you of sheltering your children? I’m quite sure we’ll be accused of that, if we haven’t been (behind our backs) already. I won’t leave my children with anyone except their grandparents ever. I have NEVER left either of them overnight, not even with grandparents. I just don’t. I’m the one who should be raising my kids…not anyone else.
This is an interesting perspective and I’d like to read more about this.
Amy says
If you click on the Family Integrated topic link below the post title, you can read the other things I’ve written on the topic, but there is so much more to be written! We were really lambasted when our 2nd born was scared to go to Sunday School (which is the reason we started the Moms N Tots class). It was ugly and seemed very strange to me that someone would insist my child go to Sunday School.
Dawn Phelps says
Having been trained as a Minister for Children, I have found myself in an interesting position with regards to family-integrated church. I have seen the real world need of Sunday School. I have seen children who had no supervision outside of the time spent in programs and services I helped to run. Those children NEEDED us! On the other hand, as a mother, I hate having my children separated from me. God gave them to ME to raise, not the teachers. So, I’m torn. There is not a family-integrated church near us and so, we are on our own. I have been criticized for even keeping my 10 year old daughter out of Children’s Church! We are currently praying to find what it is that God is wanting of us at this time.
Thank you for your candid discussion of this very important topic!
Amy says
Interestingly, Sunday School was started as a ministry to orphans who had no families to teach them the truths of the Bible. There IS a need for ministry to these children, but again, I’m not fully convinced the best way is Sunday School. However, I can respect the desire to help children who have no one else.
Christy says
I struggle with the youth group issue myself, but I’m the only one. My husband and son, of course, think that the good outweighs the bad. However, we have had boy/girl issues and problems with rumors being started that have caused tension. I would love to cut it out and just continue to have my teen son attend regular service with us but I’m still alone in that right now. My 11yo doesn’t want to go to children’s church but is looking forward to youth in a few months. Ugh.
Mary says
Thanks for the insights! We had been attending a non-integrated church for a while and then left to attend a family integrated church, but over the last three weeks, have been really convicted over how we left. This year has been a time of growth for our family (three young ones and one due any day)not only in training the 5,3,1 year olds to sit quietly but redirecting our family focus. We spoke with the pastor at the integrated church and expressed our need to go back to the non-integrated church and at least make things right if not stay and be a part there (which is where we have stayed members.) God has so blessed the last few weeks. Our children have been fairly good. The pastor received us back with not only forgiveness but grace as well. He is very supportive of our children attending with us, even with a small amount of noise. So we are so thankful. And I am thankful for the ideas you presented here!
Angie @ Many Little Blessings says
At our old church (when we were Episcopalian), people were shocked when our kids didn’t really want to go to the nursery or do Sunday school. We caved to pressure (on the few Sundays we managed to drag ourselves there, since we were going out of obligation, not because we wanted to, we did try to put the kids in the various places that everyone said they should be).
I was thrilled when we became Catholic that children are expected to be at Mass with their families. There is one Mass per weekend at our parish where they have a time that the kids can be gone for a portion, but we don’t attend that Mass. Any kids programming happens outside of Mass time. It made it hard when Molly was little (the boys were already in elementary school when we started attending), but we got through it and she learned how to behave and sit quietly for the hour. (She had lots of practice, of course, because once we were going to the church we actually wanted to be going to, we went all the time.)
We do send our kids to a religious education program because our parish requires it of all children not enrolled in Catholic school. (Though, I always feel that I want to point out to them that our homeschool is, in fact, a Catholic school. But, that’s neither here nor there.) Especially at the later elementary age, their classes are kind of out of control. They’re getting more religious instruction out of home instruction and Mass than they are getting on those evenings.
Amy says
Angie,
I’m curious…are Masses as quiet as I’ve always heard they are? I’ve heard from many people that the children are very quiet and respectful.
Kari says
Hi Amy! I wanted to reply to your question about Mass. Catholic Masses are very quiet, I think it’s just in the nature of the mass for it to be a quiet and reverent experience. Of course, kids are kids and will act up! I remember Sundays when I would be in tears at the end of Mass b/c the kids had been “so bad!!!” And it never failed that someone would come up and hug me and tell me “It gets better!! Hang in there! We’ve all been there and we remember! Just keep bringing them and don’t let anyone tell you that you shouldn’t!” That always made me feel so great! But I think one reason it stays pretty quiet is that parents tend to take out young children before they really get reared up and disrupt everyone. We have had Sundays, especially recently, when my husband and I will go with out the kids. And while, it makes it easier to listen, I find myself thinking about them more and wishing we were all worshiping together! So thank you for a great post! Bringing the family back into the church should be a priority no matter where you go!
Angie @ Many Little Blessings says
I agree with what Kari said, I know that some parents have to step out with kids who get noisy. Some parishes also have “crying rooms” or “parent rooms” where you can hear and see what’s going on during the Mass, but nobody can hear you inside there.
Our parish regularly has a couple of hundred people there for Mass (or a few hundred, maybe) and there are five different times to choose from to go. Of all the times I had to take Molly out when she was small, there were never more than about two other families who had stepped into the entry way area (we don’t have a separate room for that kind of thing at our parish).
Overall, there is the occasional noisy child, but I think the kids just get used to being in there. By the time Molly was three, we had no problems and never had to take her out. And, in all fairness to her – we only started going to a Catholic Church when she was two. (So, it was still pretty new for her.) I think it’s just one of those things that when the kids grow up knowing that they need to sit there during church, they just learn to do it.
Sherri says
Amy, GREAT post! I love the way you offered ideas of how to help your Church family “come around” to the idea of family integration as opposed to segregation.
We are INCREDIBLY blessed to be part of a medium-sized (about 400 member) congregation that really operates as an extended family. There are *some* age segregated “classes” but they are most often led by “family…” 🙂 At the same time, we are also like ya’ll in that sometimes we just do things OUR way despite what’s going on around us. For instance, they offer a Children’s Church during the service & while we *were* utilizing it at one time (when it was led by our Pastor’s wife & was focused on teaching the children the liturgy & HOW to participate in the Worship service appropriately,) we have moved away from it recently, bringing our olders into the service with us. And I typically keep nurslings with me until they’re about 1 or walking… but I will admit that I find the “Nursery” situation helpful for the toddler years when they just want to be all over the place & I want to help my slightly older children handle the service well.
Thanks so much for doing a post on this! We do love the concept of total family integration but we are also HIGHLY attached to our current congregation…
Angela says
This has been a very thought-provoking series of posts for me. While I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, we are completely happy with our church which is not, I guess, of the family-integrated persuasion. We have actually been quite thankful for the age appropriate classes for our kids which have only served to reinforce and add to what we are already teaching at home. The family-integrated approach to church sounds like a good one (as long as all the families are devoted to keeping their children quiet in church), and I don’t doubt that there will be times when we have our children sit through church with us as they move into the elementary ages; but at this stage of their childhood, I am quite thankful for the Early Child Education classes offered by our church on Sunday mornings.
I said I don’t disagree with anything you’ve said, but I guess maybe there is one thing. I disagree with children doing activities during church. In my opinion, giving them activities to do isn’t training them to keep quiet in church. It is only keeping them distracted and busy so that they hopefully won’t make any noise in church. Since the ultimate goal is for them to learn to sit idly and pay attention so that they might learn (and not distract others from learning), then I think they ought to be trained to do so from the beginning.
Thanks for sharing on this topic. I enjoy reading that provokes me to thought. 🙂
Blessings,
Angela
Amy says
Thanks for sharing, Angela! The reason I think activities are okay is because I truly do not believe small children are capable of actively listening with idle hands for an hour or more. As our children age, we encourage them to take notes and use their Bibles along with the rest of the congregation. The youngers get out their Bibles and spend the service thumbing through them. We have some friends who write out key words on a piece of paper and their children listen for those words and mark down how many times they are used. In fact, I’m not sure *I* am capable of listening with idle hands for very long. Taking notes (when I can) helps me to concentrate on what is being said. So, that’s why we allow activities.
Dawn Phelps says
I have a kinetic child who physically can NOT sit still without something to keep him occupied. He usually has a coloring book or word search. Since this is how he is wired, this is how he learns. He (at age 8) can tell you more about what happened in the sermon than my 12 year old. He is not “zoning out” or being “distracted” this is what focuses him.
Tammy (wewinnow) says
Our family integrated church has Sunday School – but we can keep the children in the adult class if we want. All children are in the service. We have a youth group, but our pastor specifies that the family attends activities together. So nice to stay together!!
Cathy says
I am a Children’s Church director. Family Integration is something new to me, but it is something I am beginning to agree with more and more as I teach children and see the fruits of their lives. I am trying to work from within, but it is a battle. I fought to have the children(not just my children but the entire Children’s Church)stay in the sanctuary for the entire worship. I felt that the influence of worshiping with parents and other adults would be powerful for the growth of the children spiritually. For nearly a year the children have been in worship with the adults, but there have been so many complaints by parents that don’t want to watch their children or who feel they can’t worship because they have to take care of their children or grandchildren, that the Pastor has talked about having a separate worship for the kids. Having the kids separate for Kids’ Church is supposed to be about discipleship and training with lessons that are age appropriate. However, it usually is just a babysitting service so the adults can have their service. From my experience, the kids from strong Christian families are bored in Kid’s Church because they already are being trained at home. Unfortunately there are a lot of “Churched” kids that don’t receive any training at home. Their parents don’t do devotions or even pray with them. In fact, I think many parents expect the church workers to train their kids spiritually through church programs like they expect the public school to educate their children. They think they are doing a good job by having their children in these church programs, even though there is very little done at home. It’s like delegating authority to those that they believe are better trained and equipped. So, my dilemma is that I desire to truly reach these children for Christ, because I know many aren’t getting reached for Christ anywhere else! My church actually canceled our Sunday evening service due to lack of interest. There was no separate class for children. Parents wouldn’t come if they had to watch and be accountable for their own kids. The role of a Children’s teacher is to work with parents as a partnership. Sounds great, huh? Most parents have no clue what their child is learning from week to week. They don’t volunteer to help in any capacity. Take home activities? Forget it! Even helping with memory verses seems to take too much time for these busy parents. I almost feel like I need to schedule parent/teacher conferences just so I can inform parents what we are studying in the Bible each month. Once or twice a year, if the kids come out and perform some cute Christmas program or special song for the parents, they think the kids are doing wonderfully. I’ve decided to look at this like a mission field. There are unchurched kids, kids that aren’t discipled or trained at home even though they are in church all the time, and a small number of children that are trained at home. For those that are trained at home, I think they get more out of the adult service and I tell them so. Some parents agree, and others just seem confused or hurt, thinking I don’t want to teach their child. I am praying big time for parents to realize that their children need more to grow spiritually than an hour or two a week. I am trying to have kids be as much a part of the church with the adults as I can, as often as I can. The battle isn’t always with the children.
As for protecting my children this age, I am training them at home. I am also very careful about who they hang around. I am the teacher at church for my kids, so I know what they are learning. I encourage my ten year old to reach out to the other children, to pray with them, to be an example for them.
One day God may lead us to find a different church. For now, He has us where we are… maybe to reach these kids, maybe to reach their parents.
Amy says
Wow, Cathy! I can hear how much your heart is aching for these children. I think you are absolutely correct in your observations. Many parents are simply ignorant of any other way to do things, and would more than likely fight against any such change. Keep praying! Persevere! You have no idea what kind of impact you are making.
Natalie @ Naddy's Blog says
It is definitely a challenge some weeks with our 2 1/2 yr old and 18 month old in church, but it is so worth it. Our 2 year old now sits and looks at books, so he rarely needs to be taken out of the sanctuary, and while the 18 month old is a bit more restless and sometimes needs to be walked around with or rocked in the back, we’re making progress with her too. (Quiet snacks like dried fruit, gummies, etc, are a great help, as are “special” quiet toys and activities in the church bag that are only for during the sermon!)
They are part of God’s people and should worship with him, in our view, and we have seen God bless that as they understand things that we would not have expected them to and as we worship together with all the saints.
Karla Taylor says
Great article! My family and I are blessed to be Catholic Christians, so we don’t have this struggle, unfortunately many of my friends are facing simiar situations in their churches, so it is great to be able to pass something that is concrete and to the point. I will pray for all families to be able to enjoy the blessings of a family integrated and family friendly church. Thank you fo sharing.
Carmen says
Hi Amy. I happened to come in looking at a different post that was in my filter when I scrolled down. We have always kept our little ones in Church with us. And, because we move around a lot from state to state and travel a lot, we have visited many Churches. I am often met at the door with “good intention” people that feel most helpful in showing the best way at seperating our family into age appropriate catagories. I try just to reply that we “worship together as a family”. If I receive any more questions I just will say we will sit in the back and if their is any disruption we will take that child out.” We have many people come up afterwards and compliment the Little Ones on their behavior and often say, “my teenages can’t sit that still”. But, it never fails, the next Sunday at the same Church, we are assured by the staff that their workers have been security screened, etc. Yes, every Sunday no matter how well behaved we are always met with the same “good intentions” and there it continues Sunday after Sunday. I just consistantly remind myself that God has given me a vision for our family cause I asked for a different vision.
With my first Child (because people always feel the need to give advice to first time mothers) I received the most negative responses. I can honestly say I never had anyone encourage me except for a older lady in her 70’s who whispered to me only one time, “She is learning quickly. You are doing well. Play Church at home a little more and she will catch your vision.” I was totally shocked. I lived on those words for years. I have no idea how she understood what I was doing but I am so Thankful to her for such kind words.
We continue to “bulldoze” quietly in a programmed family church. (giggle) All the while still being met at the door with those that feel the little ones needs something on their level (typically a veggie tale move with a short story). Most have realized we won’t change our minds so now they have gone to what is the next step, “Do you get anything out of Church with your Little Ones sitting beside you?” At which I always respond, “Church isn’t about me.”
We do not have a Family Integrated Church near us. Maybe one day…. At that point, I will probably have made it through what I am told are those harder training years — toddlers.
Oh Amy, it is so hard but I agree it is so worth it. I have found that most Mother’s just need a little nudge in how to train and some practical tips. And to be reminded that God’s Grace is sufficient! Thanks for a wonderful post.
Amy says
I love that someone came alongside of you with encouragement! We must remember to do that as Titus 2 women!
Amy says
I find it interesting to see how church has changed over the years. I’m 34 years old and when I was a child we were expected to attend Sunday School before the service and then sit quietly through the main service with our families. Things began to change when I was in my teens and my church at that time switched to having “children’s church” during the main service. I thought it was a bad idea even then. I’ve seen many children’s church volunteers burn out because they rarely got to attend services.
My husband and I were reading more and more about family integrated churches and it was really making sense to us. We had the extra issue of being a new church plant where my husband is helping as a lay preacher. When a guest speaker came, the children’s church volunteers (understandably) wanted to listen to the message so children’s church was cancelled on those Sundays to “help the children learn to eventually sit through the service.” But we felt it was communicating to our children that it was important to sit through the service to listen to guest speakers, but not important to stay and listen to their own father’s teaching!
Eventually we contacted the ladies teaching children’s church (who we love and trust) and told them we really appreciated the effort and sacrifice they made to run children’s church, but that we felt our children were ready to “graduate” to staying in the service with us. They were very positive and supportive, and respectful of our decision.
Millie says
We also worship as a family. This is very important to us even though, others in the children department do not agree. It IS their job and many in the director’s positions get paid, however, we still stand by our position to keep our children with us.
I have spoken with many different people about this “new” idea of worshiping as a family and the benefits it produces. We can discuss the topics together as a family, the older people in the church LOVE and I mean LOVE seeing our family worshiping together, we are the mentors for our children and we can protect them from false prophets.
Too many churches have adopted a world view instead of a biblical view, sadly, they have chosen the wrong bridegroom, and continue to “date†the world. We no longer can tell the difference from ones who call themselves “Christian†from the True Christian. When it comes to Christ, it to often appears that churches/ christians are fans instead of followers.
Our church not only has the ss classes, and youth groups but also a mentoring program. One Sunday the “mentees” were on the pulpit discussing how wonderful this “ministry” was, while asking those in the congregation to consider being mentors One of the youths biggest “loves” of this program was that they no longer had to talk to their parents, they could just talk to their mentors! Yes, they said this on the pulpit… I cringed but some others in the congregation giggled and nodded. Again, they have accepted a world view as “scriptureâ€â€¦.
Anyway, I explain our decision like this; just being in church doesn’t make you a Christian anymore that standing in a garage makes you a car. There are MANY types of “Christians” within a church and that is the main reason we will not allow our children to be subjected to their teachings.
Just because it’s a church event, class, or program, doesn’t mean it’s a safe environment for your children.
Jamerrill says
I enjoyed your article. Yes, we would LOVE a Family integrated church! I could go on and on about how I feel like our family…large, homeschooling, stay-at-home-mothering, feels like a sore thumb in our church home. However, there are no family integrated churches in our area. We (my husband esp.) feels God has us there to be a witness and to be “light and salt.†Many people attend church 2-3 times a week, plus bible studies and additional groups (AND get together for fellowship.) However, raising a family, we are not able to be there every time the doors are open. People ask “why don’t you bring your family to church more.” Because, I’m joyfully busy raising my family for the Lord? Also, it saddens us to see that beginning in 6th grade the kids start “teen ministry.†Which in tales sitting with the youth group and not with their families, until after 12th grade. Needless to say, we will not be doing teen youth group. We have allowed our children to be a part of “nursery†and “children’s church,†and age segregated classes because honestly this is something new to us. Finally, the Lord has us to the point where we can see exactly what “family integrated church†means. So, yes, we too are learning how to be pro-family in a large church that although they love the Lord, does not have the vision (yet : ) for being family focused. We are though prayfully trying to shine God’s heart for the family. Thanks for your tips!
Gayle @ TrainingOlives says
Thank you for this post, Amy.
As you know, we just moved here a couple of months ago, and while we appreciate the new church where we are, it is NOT FIC (which we were looking for). We have been very, very discouraged over that, but the closest one (that we know of) is 3 hours away.
Nevertheless, I think I’m sensing that maybe we are meant to be there and to just play out our convictions, regardless.
It already seems that there are families there that may follow this (homeschoolers, don’t use the nursery, ect., and there is even a youth group that doesn’t seem to be very active?) I don’t know.. we are still so new, but there are some things that have been the same ol’ same ol’, if that makes sense?
Ok.. I’m rambling, so I’ll stop. But thanks again for this post. I’m going to read the comments now.
Liz C says
Later to the discussion than some, but what a great article!
Our church is medium-sized (about 300-400 congregants), and I think it’s a pretty good blend of family-oriented programs. Our Sunday services are three hours (yep!), with 70 minutes of that being our main worship service, and the rest divided between auxiliary worship meetings (men, women, children roughly by age) and Sunday School (men/women together, children roughly by age.)
Our main service is 100% family integrated; children are expected to attend and sit with their families. The service is wired into a Mother’s Lounge, but there is no nursery room; children needing to be corrected are just removed to the foyer (or even to the lawn outside if needed), then they return with their parent to the chapel.
Our auxiliary meetings and Sunday School all use “correlated” manuals–and those manuals are all available to every congregant, so it’s *very* difficult for a teacher to go extra-Biblical without being called on it, right in class. Nurslings and small children are absolutely welcome in the adult Sunday School, and I’ve taken my older children on occasion, when they wanted to visit my class instead of their own.
Children’s Sunday School kicks in at 18 months, if the parents choose. Again, each age group has a study manual that parents can read, and parents are always welcome in the small classes.
My 3yo loves to go to her “class”. Each week is the same: half an hour of playing with simple toys, all together; clean-up, and bringing out the child-sized tables and chairs (the children help!); washing hands, and a simple snack; singing time (my daughter’s favorite part); a short lesson that actually comes from the Bible (which I love!), and a coloring page related to the lesson. The teachers (a set of 4!) have it all wrapped up, and the children ready for worship service, on time every week. I do feel comfortable letting her attend–mostly because I know I’m welcome to come in, too, and attend with her, or to take her to my chosen class.
Youth group–I go round and round on that one, too. 🙂 Our teens have some spiritual achievement programs that are scripture-based, and family-focused. While the leaders are mentors, they are strictly counseled to *not* take the divinely-appointed place of the parents. The kids are given leadership, and learn to plan activities that accomplish Biblical goals, and preserve individual modesty (though not always dignity… they come up with some goofy fun stuff.) The activities are largely gender-separated, with a once-a-month group activity (today they went and did crafts and decorated cookies with mentally-disabled teens and young adults.) The lights stay on. 🙂
Getting long here… I absolutely agree that a family-friendly church is one that encourages family worship and learning. I like the way my church has things family-centered, but with some option for age divisions that do not take away from family worship, as there is no time overlap.
I love your suggestions for being a positive change in a church!
Amy says
I love to hear when churches are “getting it!” Thanks for sharing!
Dyan says
Amy,
We have been keeping our kids, ages 8, 7, 7, and 4 in the sevice with us for nearly 2 years now because we feel strongly like that’s where they belong. Our younger two, ages 3 and 11 months are in the nusery. The problem is that we are in the minority at our non-family integrated church, and our kids simply do not like church. It is hard for them to see all of the other kids get dismissed after worship to go to Children’s church, and know that they have to sit still for another hour and 15 minutes. We cuddle with them in the pew, and try to discuss the message with them afterwards. We also give them praise and special treats for being “good” in church. They still don’t like church, and are not excited to go. We want them to love God, to love His church, and to want to worship Him. We pray together at home, and do read lots of Bible stories together and talk about God and faith at home as well. It just seems that it is all an uphill battle to compete with their desire to be entertained, and to do what they want rather than to exercise self-control. I know this is natural, but as a mom, I sometimes get discouraged. Please let me know if you have any wisdom to share! Thanks for your post!
Amy says
That is a hard place to be when worshiping as a family isn’t very “worshipful.” Family integrated churches create an atmosphere where children are cherished and nurtured in their faith, but we have been in your position as well with children being dismissed and ours not going. We typically bring coloring pages and small toys for them. We also practice sitting at home and explaining why we want them with us. But I haven’t been in that position for a very long time, so I feel a bit out of touch with that world. We’ve also moved several times since being a more traditional church setting. Each move my husband has chosen to worship at home as a family until we find a family-integrated setting rather than tempt our children (and ourselves) with a setting that promotes family separation. However, I would never counsel you to leave your current church unless the teaching was un-bibilical or your children were in danger (spiritual danger being the most important one to consider). Not knowing your particular situation, all I can say is often perseverance and loving rock-solidness is all it takes to keep your family together amidst people who are not like-minded, but I know how exhausting that can be. Seek the Lord’s leading and do what you need to do to put the discipling of your children and the worship of God first and foremost. Praying for you! ~Amy
Jamerrill @ Holy Spirit-led Homeschooling says
Dyan,
We’re in the same place, a large church that seems to separate all the families by classes/ages/services. We also have chosen to follow our hearts and be family integrated. As Amy stated, I also take a small bag with a few coloring books & drawing notebooks for the kids. We also have our kids take their Bibles {wow, what a thought}. We do put our 2 year old in the toddler class for now because we’re still getting our system down on how to handle a running toddler in service – hopefully SOON! I encourage you as well to just keep the Godly perspective. Keep doing what’s right, even when it hurts. I long for a family integrated church myself, but my husband says our church home is where God wants us to shine His light for homeschooling. I support you from across the web!
Dyan says
Thanks for the prayers and input! I also find things difficult because we changed churches about 8 months ago because we were feeling that we wanted more “meat” instead of “milk.”. We do like our current church, but ut has been a long and slow road fitting in and getting used to a new church. We tried to find a FIC, but there are none where we live (except for one which does not even have a staffed nursery). My husband works 4 Sundays in a row, and is off the next 3 Sundays. With a rambunctious 3 year old son, I could not leave my other kids in the service to take him out if necessary, so we at least need a nursery. Anyway, I think I will try the coloring book idea tomorrow!
Thanks so much!
Dyan
Julie says
Thank you so much for posting on this topic. I’ve known of you blog for a while through Raising Homemakers, but just found this post and its companions today. This is so where my heart is right now, but does not seem to be where my church is heading. Thank you for your suggestions, and for helping me know that I am not the only one who would like to worship with my family on the weekend instead of everyone going off to a different part of the church.
Jenn says
Please send more information about why family integrated church is Biblical.
I agree but need to share more with my husband. He thinks the kids need to learn more “on their own age- appropriate level”.
Amy says
Hi Jenn! There are several references in the Bible to families coming together to hear proclamations or to hear Jesus teach. It’s not so much that I think this is the only way to do it, but I do think children need the guidance of mom and dad to understand bigger theological concepts, rather than peers and entertainment. We don’t give children a lot of credit for being able to understand much beyond a cute story and a cartoon. It takes a special teacher to really give kids something theologically deep. That said, Sunday School isn’t evil, but its original intent was to “school” orphans and the unchurched. In other words, children without parents to guide them.
alexandra says
I love this! Here is the thing, my husband is a pastor of a church and yes it is age segregated. I didnt realize that my heart was against this until at our community group ( small group), I saw a mom who would make her child go away if they wanted to be with the adults. Then they had asked for us to all chip in money so we could higher a babysitter during that time so that the kids weren’t distracted. This all just didnt sit right with me. I really dont care if my kids want to sit with me during small group; they will see adults praying and talking about scripture and the sermon. I as well have a hard time with youth group; my oldest is only 4 so we haven’t had to deal with this yet. I have brought this up to my husband about allowing children to be involved and he said our church isnt ready to recieve it yet because its so against culture. I get it and think it is wise. My prayer is that over the years we could promote a new culture. Possibly if there were a few families that had their kids stay with them it would send a message. Here is my question, what about when non christians or new believers visit your church? What does that look like?
Amy says
Ideally, everyone should help out with the children of newcomers. We want them to feel like we are a community and they are not all by themselves trying to make their children (who aren’t typically used to that sort of environment) behave.